A Room 101 Interview with Karyn Dolan Other than BoA: Audio, of course, the only other 'esoteric' type radio show that I enjoy listening to regularly these days is Karyn Dolan's excellent Through the Keyhole. With her characteristically friendly manner and down to earth approach, Karyn's interviews are both fun and informative. Karyn often asks the questions the ordinary, intelligent listener at home wants to ask that, often, other radio show hosts just don't think of. So after interviewing her husband Richard Dolan, author of UFOs and the National Security State, I was very pleased when Karyn also agreed to answer a few questions for a Room 101 interview. We'll be discussing UFOs, parapolitics, 911, Karyn's evolution as an active media member in the esoteric field, the dynamics of the Dolan family, ET elements in childrens' programming and a whole lot more. Richard Thomas: Thanks for agreeing to this interview Karyn. I'm sure you and your husband are pretty busy with the recent release of Richard's new book UFOs and the National Security State volume II so it's much appreciated. How did you first become interested in UFOs and other 'esoteric' type topics and where did the idea to do your own radio show come from? Also, do you think you might have ever seen a UFO, or, perhaps had any other kind of paranormal experience yourself? Karyn Dolan: Thanks so much for asking me, Richard, and thanks for your kind words about Through the Keyhole! I'm so glad to hear that you enjoy it. I started with a guest spot on Live from Roswell, which is hosted by a friend of ours named Guy Malone. He invited me to come on and talk about what it's like to live with a UFO researcher, for a unique take on the subject when everyone else was interviewing the researchers themselves. I had a great time, even though I was really nervous at first, and our ratings were quite good. After a couple more guest spots with Guy, I was offered a show of my own on the Paranormal Radio Network. I hesitated, but decided that I'd probably never get an opportunity like this again; and besides, the worst that could happen was that I'd be bad at it, maybe be a little embarrassed, and my time slot would be given to someone else. It was nothing I couldn't survive, so I went for it, and I'm so glad I did. I got to interview people like George Noory of Coast to Coast AM after just a few months at it, I've met all kinds of really fun and interesting people, and I've learned so much about their research. I never thought about UFOs until Rich told me he was writing his first book; but I'd been interested in other esoteric subjects all my life. Since I was a child, I've read ghost stories, books about vampires and witches and the Loch Ness Monster, and any other unexplained phenomena. I've always been fascinated by anything that couldn't be explained by mainstream science. It proves to me that conventional wisdom, in any subject, is simply not all there is to life -- there's so much more, if we just open our minds to it. Also, when I was about eight, I discovered a book on Wicca. The thing about Wicca is that no one ever "converts" to it -- people say they finally learn the name for what they've always believed. That's how I felt. Even though I was brought up in the Roman Catholic Church, I've always felt more Wiccan; and that is a religion that embraces all others as valid paths to the Light. Some of the main tenets of Wicca are to harm none, to respect all life, and to take responsibility for your own actions. It also teaches that everyone has potential psychic ability, which appeals to my belief that there's more to life than what appears in the newspapers. And yes, I actually did see something in the sky that I still can't explain. In the summer of 2006, years after Rich's book came out, I was in a coffee shop with my son. We were sitting by the window, watching the full moon rise, when we both noticed a diagonal shadowy line across the moon. It was motionless, and we spent several minutes trying to find something in the shop that could be causing a reflection on the window, and changing our position to see if it moved. All the reflections on the window moved as we moved around, but that line didn't. After about five minutes, it slowly moved forward and upward, and once it was no longer in front of the moon, we couldn't see it against the darkening sky. We live near an airport so we see planes all the time. This looked similar to a plane, but it had no lights at all and it was perfectly straight. A plane has a raised tip on the tail. Also, no plane ever remains motionless that long. I wondered whether it had only appeared motionless because it was coming toward us, but we were clearly viewing it from the side. I still don't know what that was. Richard Thomas: While preparing for this interview, I was conscious not to overload you with questions about your husband. Do you ever get a little tired of being compared to Richard or having to answer questions about him? I'm sure you've been asked numerous times over the last few years about when his next book would be out and that must get a little annoying sometimes. Karyn Dolan: It used to be common for people to talk to me only when they wanted to reach Rich. Since I've been hosting the radio show, and have been attending conferences, talking with people, reading the literature, listening to presentations...now I'm finding that people want to talk to me as well. I get people contacting me all the time, asking if they can come on the show, and I love that. Sometimes, people will ask me to sign a conference poster or something, and that's really fun too. I'm also now a member of the Board of Directors for the International UFO Congress, and have contributed a chapter to a book on UFO and alien images in society which we hope will be published in 2010. So I really feel that I can stand on my own feet in this field. Rich is a brilliant man, an amazing writer and a very talented speaker. He introduced me to this field, and to a lot of the people in it. There are things that each of us does better than the other. At the end of the day, I know that I can't please everyone, so I do my best at whatever I'm doing, and make sure I can still respect myself. I have my own way of doing things and people seem to enjoy it. I'm not Rich Dolan and I don't pretend to be, but I am Karyn Dolan, and I'm very happy with that. BTW, I never get annoyed by questions about when the next book is coming out. I'm not the one who has to write it, so it really doesn't bother me. :-) Richard Thomas: In my interview with Richard (I'll mention him just the once, promise), we focused more on what is sometimes called parapolitics, in particular 9/11 and its aftermath. Your husband seemed to be a big fan of Alex Jones' films, especially his latest addition to the InfoWar The Obama Deception. I know your family is primarily associated with UFO research, but given Richard's outspoken take on 911, what are your thoughts on that fateful event? Also, if you had the chance to ask Obama two questions on Through the Keyhole what would they be? They don't have to be 9/11 or Alex Jones related they could be on UFOs or anything. Karyn Dolan: I completely believe that 9/11 was an inside job, and I said so to Rich the day it happened. By that I mean that someone in our government either helped plan it, perhaps only knew about it ahead of time and didn't do anything to stop it, or did something that day that allowed the attacks to occur. I believe that the most horrifying thing about that day, and there was plenty of horror in it, was the realization that human life is of no account to those who were supposedly elected to lead us, to look out for us. We are totally expendable, and they will sacrifice us in a heartbeat for their personal gain. That kept me up for a lot of nights after 9/11, and sometimes still does. Rich didn't agree with me at first, but later, as we both watched the investigation and the evidence that was uncovered, he began to believe it as well. What actually happened that day? Setting aside the loss of human life (which was horrific, but clearly of no account to the perpetrators), the World Trade Center was attacked. The two tallest towers and one smaller building were destroyed. So the two most visible parts of the complex were the first to go; that was a shocking visible reminder of the "Terrorist Threat" that was pounded into our awareness over the following weeks, months, years. Yet, the businesses that had offices there, also had offices elsewhere. It didn't really cripple our nation financially, not in the way the newscasters told us it would. The important thing about that was the fear factor. And I think that's a big reason why the towers still haven't been rebuilt, even this many years later. That scar on the skyline is more important in some ways than building the memorial; otherwise, it would be done by now. It's been eight years, for heavens' sake, and the site was cleared quickly -- all the evidence was removed immediately and sold as scrap metal before it could be examined by any forensic specialists. The destruction of the smaller building, Building 7, has never been satisfactorily explained. The best theory I've heard is that the command center for the events of 9/11 was located in that building, and it was destroyed in order to hide evidence of that fact. I don't know enough to say it's true or not, but it sounds more plausible to me than any of the official explanations that I've heard so far. Aside from that, the Pentagon building was damaged, but not too badly. There was, again, a shocking loss of innocent lives, but the facility was up and running in a very short time. There is also some indication that some embarrassing financial records were conveniently destroyed. Finally, we were told that the last plane was heading toward the White House, but it never came anywhere near hitting its target. So the public's perception was that our nation's capital, our defense system, and our financial system were all attacked, but truly, no real damage occurred to the systems themselves. A couple of buildings were destroyed, a few more were damaged, some evidence of financial misconduct was disposed of, and it was all covered up by the deaths of thousands of innocent people. We were mostly too stunned and grief-stricken to raise any questions, and anyone who tried to do so was labeled unpatriotic and told to go shopping to stimulate the economy. The real result was fear, which allowed the passage of the Patriot Act and a host of other laws that would never have been tolerated prior to the 9/11 attacks. There's a huge body of research that's been done on this. I highly recommend David Ray Griffin's book, The New Pearl Harbor, for anyone interested in pursuing this any further. I saw enough to convince me that the official explanation requires more credulity than most of the alternative theories, but I haven't tried to solve the mystery of what actually happened that day. Many others have taken up that task, and I urge everyone reading this at least to consider with an open mind, the evidence these people have amassed before making your decision either way. As far as asking Obama anything...I don't know that I'd bother. I wouldn't expect to get a straight answer from anyone in his position. He may not even have the answers to my questions. I don't think the person holding the office of President necessarily knows all the secrets; I bet people like Dick Cheney and Bush, Sr. have that information. But if I thought he could or would answer, I'd ask Obama who was really behind 9/11, and what's being kept secret about UFOs. Richard Thomas: Speaking of parapolitics, what are your thoughts on David Icke? Is he somebody you'd like to interview and have you read any of his books? If so, which ones and what did you think? Personally, I'd love to ask him a few questions myself because, if nothing else, he's lived a fascinating life and I think he has a great approach to life. Karyn Dolan: A friend told me about David Icke years ago, and on that recommendation I went to Icke's web site. My first impression was that the man was a complete lunatic, and I didn't look at it again for about a year. The second time I looked at his site, however, some of his predictions had come to pass. So I looked again, and found that a lot of what he said made more sense than I had thought. I'm still trying to come to terms with the whole "shapeshifting, cannibalistic reptilian/humans in the royal family" thing, but my impression is that he feels the same way. I read something he wrote about that in which he said that he knew how crazy it sounded, but people kept coming up to him all over the world and telling him about it. It gave him the impression that there must be something to it, and he put it out there in case someone else could make some sense out of it. I think now that it's entirely possible that someone was feeding him ridiculous-sounding stories in order to discredit him; or maybe, just maybe, they're actually true. I'm sure a lot of people will be groaning at how gullible I sound, but the truth is that I haven't looked into it, I don't have the facts, and what do I know? The one thing I do believe is that almost anything is possible. I don't accept stories without proof; but I try not to dismiss them without proof, either. I think now that David Icke is a brilliant, perceptive and courageous man. I would be deeply honored to shake his hand one day, and I sincerely hope I get a chance to do that. The bulk of what he writes, and talks about, is our own ability to take charge of our own lives if we just stand up to those who are telling us we have no power. They're lying, and all we have to do is realize it and say no. Richard Thomas: Back to Through the Keyhole, do you have a favourite topic of discussion and is there a topic you haven't covered yet you really want to? Karyn Dolan: There are a few things I've been thinking about. I'm interested in ancient and anomalous structures in the United States, like Coral Castle in Florida, America's Stonehenge in New England, and the ancient mounds in the midwest. People write to me all the time and tell me about their work, and often it's something I never heard of before, that sounds really fascinating. That's the best part of the radio show for me, getting to talk with all of these people about their work, getting to ask the questions that I believe my listeners would ask if they were in the room with us. I especially enjoy it when my listeners ask questions through the chat room, when it becomes a conversation that includes more than just two people. Richard Thomas: You've been doing Through the Keyhole for over two years now, which interviews stand out for you as the most enlightening or surprising and why? Karyn Dolan: I think I would have to say that my interview with Lloyd Pye about the Starchild Skull really stands out in my mind, because there's this incontrovertible piece of physical evidence that no one can explain away. No one has proven that it's an alien skull, or that of an alien-human hybrid, but no one has been able to prove that it's a fake, either. It's a real skull, and no one can get around that. It has cellular structure that's consistent with, but still different from, normal bone. The most anyone has been able to object to is where the skull has been since it was brought out of a cave in Mexico, saying its "provenance is unproven." Fine, but that doesn't change the fact that it exists, that it's composed of real bone cells, and that no one has yet identified it. This really appeals to me because I'm fascinated by forensics, by anatomy and physiology and biochemistry. I studied veterinary medicine for a while before we decided to start a family. I may go back to it one day. Richard Thomas: I've often heard it said by some that the 'Space Brothers' are coming to save us. If that's true great but I can't honestly say I see any real evidence for this interpretation. If anything the UFO occupants (whatever they are or represent) seem ambivalent or worst maybe even hostile towards us. What are your thoughts on this? Karyn Dolan: I'd love to think that the UFO occupants are benevolent. I just don't feel that I have enough information to justify that belief. I've heard people say that if they wanted to harm us, they would have done so by now. To me, this presupposes that we know their motivations. I don't think I know what they want. They may have very good reasons for waiting a while before they harm us. The fact that they're telling us they don't want to harm us doesn't reassure me, either, since we have absolutely no way to judge whether they're telling the truth. Of course, they may not be as harmful as we think, either. It's true that they haven't tried to round us all up into their spaceships and eat us, or to simply shoot us all with lasers on the ground. (See how goofy it sounds when you actually say it?) Many people have pointed out that they seem to be studying us in the same way that we study animals. Human researchers shoot an animal with a tranquilizer, abduct it, study it, take tissue samples, and return it to the wild -- sometimes in the right place, sometimes not. I like to imagine the animal returning to its family and debating whether to tell them about its abduction experience. Will anyone believe the story? Will they be ridiculed? Will they forever have to fight harder for a place at the watering hole? Contact with aliens can be a terrifying and traumatic experience for those who live through it. I have a great deal of sympathy for people who've experienced this, and I can't tell you how much I admire the courage of the ones who choose to share their stories. Because that's the only way we learn about what's happening, and that's the only way others who go through the same thing can come to terms with their own experiences. It's incredibly important, and it's incredibly difficult to do. These people are heroes in my eyes, just for living through what they have and not letting it beat them down. I think there is no single answer to this question of whether they mean us harm or good. I believe there are several groups here, I don't know how many, and I don't think they all have the same motivations. So trying to ask, "what do they want?" is an oversimplification, to say the least. It's simply not possible to answer that question without a lot more information, beginning with "whom do you mean by 'they'?" Richard Thomas: I understand you're not a big fan of the children's BBC series The Teletubbies. You even did a lecture on it for the Crash Retreival Conference in 2007. The Teletubbies was an incredibly popular children's series in the UK about a decade ago, when it first started. I remember my mum had to try really hard to get my younger sister a toy Teletubby for Christmas once, they would sell out incredibly quickly and people would queue for hours to try and get one. There were even stories of people snatching them from other people's trolies if I remember rightly. What do you think The Teletubbies could represent that's so dangerous? Do you think this might be an example of predictive programming? Karyn Dolan: I don't really think The Teletubbies in themselves are dangerous; but I don't like thinking that small children will see creatures that so strongly resemble alien greys presented in such a positive way. As we discussed earlier, I don't know what the alien beings want, but I don't feel that I have enough information to trust them. Because of that, I don't want kids to start thinking they can be trusted either, not without knowing a lot more about them. I raised the question as to whether their appearance might be a deliberate effort to make the general public more accepting of beings who look something like that, and almost immediately found government documents that supported that conclusion. I first spoke on this topic at the Roswell UFO Festival in 2007, and immediately afterward so many people contacted me with information and leads that I rewrote the presentation with probably twice as much material, and gave that talk at Roswell in 2008. I also presented this material at the Crash Retrieval Conference and at the UFO Congress in Bordentown, NJ. Not everyone agrees with me, and that's fine. I just wanted to get people thinking about it at first, and now I really do think there's something here that's important for people to know about. I find it interesting that many people have reacted very positively to my presentation, in particular a police officer who works mainly with child victims of sexual crimes. So a man who spends most of his time defending children from predators is totally in agreement with this concept. In fact, he sought me out at the Roswell UFO Festival last year and told me that he watched my presentation on DVD, then went over it again and again in an attempt to analyze the evidence as he would if he were trying to make a case in criminal court. He said that he hasn't been able to poke a hole in my case, and that's very gratifying to me. Had he found evidence to prove that I was completely wrong, I would have wanted to hear about it; but I was glad to know that my work was checked so thoroughly and apparently passed the acid test. By contrast, only one or two people have told me they disagree with my conclusions, and they were self-proclaimed contactees. I've found that the people who are most insistent that the aliens mean us no harm are those who believe they have had direct contact with these beings. One could say that they're in a better position to know the truth, since they've had more contact than the rest of us; but they're also in a better position to receive whatever information these beings want to give out about themselves, and we have no way of knowing whether the aliens are telling us the truth. Ultimately, I have to ask myself about the aliens -- would they have a reason to lie? Yes, if they are here with the intent to harm us, they would have every reason to lie. Does that mean they are lying? No, it means they might be, and I don't have enough information to prove it either way. Richard Thomas: Since you first started looking into this, have you noticed any more TV shows with ET elements in them you think could be significant? Karyn Dolan: I actually haven't, since we don't watch TV. I watch The Office, The Simpsons, Heroes and Lost on DVD, but we never watch live broadcasts of anything anymore because I can't stand the commercials. And yes, our whole family loves the Simpsons. The episode in which Homer sees an alien in the woods and is later visited by the X-Files' Mulder and Scully is priceless! I'm just sorry the Lone Gunmen didn't make it into that episode. Richard Thomas: Aside from the ET elements in children's programming, what other types of big picture issues in Ufology have caught your interest in recent years? Karyn Dolan: I've been watching the development of physical trace cases that people like Ted Phillips have been working on. I'm also fascinated by the assortment of anomalies that appear together in some of these cases. The Skinwalker Ranch, that George Knapp and Colm Kelleher wrote about, is a great example of that. Researchers found UFOs and cattle mutilations in conjunction with poltergeist activity and Bigfoot sightings. It proves to me that we can't call ourselves UFO researchers and turn our backs on cryptozoology and other fields; these things are all occurring side by side, and there must be some reason for it, which we'll never discover unless we drop the ego and start focusing on the cases. So many people seem to be adopting an elitist attitude toward this field of study, and it's both silly and self-defeating. Yes, we have to weed out the sad cases of people who don't have real information, but claim to have witnessed UFOs in order to get attention. These people do exist. But we also have to be careful not to dismiss or ignore valuable information. Richard Thomas: I'm not sure how old your children are but are they showing any signs of becoming interested in either parapolitics or the paranormal at all? Given their para pedigree if I was a betting man I'd put serious money on one or more of them becoming big esoteric stars someday. Would you be happy to see this or is a Dolan dynasty of paranormal and/or parapolitical researchers something your trying to actively discourage? Karyn Dolan: I love the term para pedigree; I'm going to have to remember that one! Our son and daughter are both are very comfortable with the fact that there's a lot more to the world than what you can see and touch. They accept the reality of UFOs as a given; if anything, they wonder why anyone would doubt their existence. They've already moved on to the next question, which is where they come from and who's flying them. Both are also very much interested in the spiritual world, with a strong belief in the existence of ghosts, spirits, and psychism. We've experimented occasionally with Zener cards and they both did quite well. Mike is very much involved with parapolitics, as is noted on our website, keyholepublishing.com. Although he's only thirteen, he belongs to a local environmental group and is also a member of Students for a Democratic Society, and recently attended the G-20 protests in Pittsburgh with them as well as a protest against the war in Afghanistan that was held here in Rochester recently. He's already had experience with tear gas. I have mixed feelings about that; mostly I'm just glad he's home safe, but we're also tremendously proud of him for standing up for what he believes in. Our daughter, Elaine, is eleven. She's a very talented musician and filmmaker, and makes a lot of funny animated videos which actually got kudos from someone at the Discovery Channel last year. Both the kids are very talented writers, as well, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more books being written in this family. Every once in a while, I joke about buying an RV, painting it purple and green like the Mystery Machine on Scooby Doo, and driving it around the country to investigate mysteries. We have a big dog now, and there are four of us, so I guess we could do it. But I guess my cats probably wouldn't enjoy it as much. :-) I never try to push the kids into anything. I'll nudge them to try something new and broaden their horizons, but they choose their own interests. I'm pleased to see them pursuing UFO research if this is what grabs them, but I'd be just as pleased to see them in a different field. What matters is that they find the thing that makes them want to jump out of bed in the morning and get back to it, and that's different for everyone. We've homeschooled them both for years, and I think it really helped them learn to think for themselves and make a lot of their own decisions in a way that public schools simply aren't able to do. I have the greatest respect for public school teachers, I just think they're overwhelmed with the amount of work they have to do, and the number of students they have to teach, with limited resources. It's so much easier for me, with only my two, whom I've known since before they were born. We can allow more freedom since we have so much more flexibility. Both of the kids have tried public school, by the way, and excelled at it, though both chose to return to homeschooling. Richard Thomas: Thanks again Karyn, please tell our readers where they can listen to Through the Keyhole and find any websites or blogs you might have. Karyn Dolan: Thanks so much for asking me, Richard. It's been a pleasure. Your readers can find out more about me and about my work at keyholepublishing.com/karyndolan . All the information about Through the Keyhole and my guests can be found there, as well as links to listen live or to access the archives. The show airs on the Paranormal Radio Network at paranormalradionetwork.org. Archives can also be found at blackvaultradio.com and on iTunes, by searching for Paranormal Radio Network and selecting Through the Keyhole. As I mentioned earlier, I'm now the Media Relations Director for the International UFO Congress. Information on that organization and their yearly conference in Laughlin, NV, can be found at www.ufocongress.com. I also write occasionally for Women of Esoterica, at womenesoterica.blogspot.com. Other contributors to this blog include Regan Lee, Lesley Gunter, and Farah Yurdozu. I'm very pleased to be able to work with such excellent writers. And for fun, check out this website, which relates to my day job: I'm an assistant to world-class balloon artist Larry Moss. He calls his work "the fine art of folding air," and you can see his work at www.airigami.com. (I'm trying to get Larry to come to Roswell and fly a balloon UFO over the city.) Richard Thomas, BoA UK Correspondent and Columnist.