We begin things by remembering the late Mac Tonnies, a good friend of Nick and Greg, who passed away on October 18th. Nick starts by recalling the unique perspective that Mac brought to his first esoteric book After the Martian Apocalypse as well as how their friendship developed over the years. Greg also talks about the evolution of their friendship and how Mac inspired and excited Greg to develop many different ideas as well as Mac's unique sense of humor that he brought to esoterica. Greg also discusses Mac's forth-coming posthumous book, the long-awaited Cryptoterrestrials, which he has been fortunate enough to have already read. This leads to some discussion on how Mac's passing left a huge void in the world of online esoterica. Nick also talks about how he expects a newfound appreciation for Mac to arise when Cryptoterrestrials is published and a realization of how much the field of esoterica has lost with his passing.

We move on to discuss the cancellation of UFO Hunters. Nick talks about how the end of UFOH was par for the course in the television industry, which is quick to move on from programs, whether it be for bugetary or ratings reasons. Greg also dismisses theories that UFO Hunters was shut down due to nefarious reasons by those "trying to maintain UFO secrecy." This leads to some discussion on the difficulty of producing UFO programs, since the phenomenon is fairly static.

Up next, we look at the mid-November endorsement of aliens by the Vatican. While we essentially covered a very similar story in 2008, we briefly talk about what this ongoing pro-UFO/ET stance from the Vatican might mean. Moving on, we cover one of the bigger stories which happened very close to the end of the year: the UK MOD UFO desk closing. Nick discusses two big points that merit mentioning regarding the story: 1> that the UK isn't necessarily not investigating UFOs anymore, just that it is not collecting UFO reports from the public and 2> that the amount of work done by the UFO desk has been widely misperceived. Greg talks about what the closing of the UFO desk may suggest, as far as what governments think or know about UFOs.

Wrapping up 2009's stories, we look at the Norway Spiral. Greg shares his skepticism of the "out of control rocket" story which was put forth as the reason for the Norway spiral. Nick also speculates on what may have been going on with the strange event.

Closing the book on 2009, we speculate on what might be the breakout genre of esoterica, with Tim making the prediction that we will see a further 2012-ification of esoterica. Greg shares his take on where he how the true breakthroughs in esoterica will unfold. Nick reflects on the unpredictability of the UFO subject and how that makes predicting how the next year will unfold extremely difficult.

In the final half of the conversation, we look at the end of the 00's decade and how esoterica has changed in the last ten years. Greg starts by first providing some perspective on what the 1980's and 1990's meant for Ufology. He also talks about how the Exopolitics movement grew out of developments of the 1990's and what may develop in the 2010's as a result of percolations happening in the field this past decade. Greg also talks about the need to move towards "theoretical Ufology" as the new decade begins.

Nick provides some perspective on the end of the decade and how it actually does not compare very well to previous decades as far as sea changes in Ufological research. We then move on to speculate on why the Exopolitics movement seemed to be the break-out branch of Ufology this past decade and why it is unique to this period of time. Staying within the realm of UFOs, we talk about how it appears that this decade marked a change in how the media covers UFOs, with a more positive spin on the phenomenon than we've seen in the past.

We also discuss how, in the 2000's, Ufology was finally displaced by other esoteric genres (911 & Ghost Hunting) and moved down the proverbial ladder to a distant 3rd in popularity in esoterica. Nick provides some perspective on how other fields were once the top genres of the paranormal scene. Greg talks about what sets UFO research apart from other fields, which can hamper it with a "results now" populace in contemporary times. We next look at the emerging mainstream credibility that befell cryptozoology in the 2000's and Nick discusses why that seemed to be the case.

Looking at one sea change that affected all of society, including esoterica, was the emergence and solidification of the Internet. Greg talks about how much the Internet has changed esoterica as well as the book publishing industry. Nick also talks about how the Internet changed the social culture in UFO studies where classic UFO groups have been supplanted by Internet communities.

Wrapping up our conversation, we talk about what's next for the UFO Mystics, starting with Greg, who details his work on an impending article which will reveal the identity of the mysterious "Falcon" as well as the problems he's faced with writing the piece. Nick also tells us about what he has cooking for 2010, including a fascinating new book titled Final Event which deals with a quasi-think tank inside the DoD which determined that UFOs were demonic.

Greg Bishop Bio

Greg Bishop became interested in UFOs at a very early age. He has no idea why. In 1991, he cofounded a magazine entitled The Excluded Middle, for the purpose of educating himself first, and secondly, passing on the info to interested readers. How selfish. TEM was a journal of UFOs, conspiracy research, psychedelia and new science (now online at www.excludedmiddle.com ). "Wake Up Down There!" a collection of articles from the magazine, was published in 2000.

Greg’s writing has appeared the L.A. Weekly, Fortean Times, UFO Magazine and Magical Blend, among others, and in the book-length anthologies "Conspiracy And Cyberculture," "Zen And The Art of Close Encounters," "Kooks," and "You Are Being Lied To." In 2005, his book "Project Beta" was an attempt to set the record straight on the Paul Bennewitz disinfo saga. His third and newest title, "Weird California," was published in March of 2006. His internet show, "Radio Misterioso," can be heard on Sundays from 8-10 PM PST at www.killradio.org. Interviews with fringe-topic researchers and weird music are the usual fare.

When not writing, he can be found in the southwestern deserts of the US or flying his paraglider above vertiginous cliffs and mountains, sometimes with a propeller strapped to his back. Successful bribes include New Mexican cuisine, recordings of “outsider” music, rare contactee books, tickets to baseball games and selected original artwork.

His websites are excludedmiddle.com & ufomystic.com

Nick Redfern Bio

Nick Redfern started his writing career as an eighteen-year-old in 1982 on a British-based music, fashion, and entertainment magazine called "Zero." His interest in UFOs was prompted by his father, who worked on radar with the British Royal Air Force, and who was personally aware of several UFO encounters investigated by the British Government in the 1950s.

Nick is the author of several books on unsolved mysteries and UFOs: "A Covert Agenda;" "The FBI Files;" "Cosmic Crashes;" "Strange Secrets" (with Andy Roberts); "Three Men Seeking Monsters;" "Body Snatchers in the Desert;" "On the Trail of the Saucer Spies;" "Celebrity Secrets;" "Monkey Man;" and "Memoirs of a Monster Hunter". He has written for UFO Magazine; Fortean Times; Fate Magazine; and the British Daily Express newspaper.

Nick has spent weeks chasing the vampire-like Chupacabras in Puerto Rico for the Sci-Fi Channel and Canada's Space Channel; roamed around the old base at Roswell, New Mexico in search of decaying, smelly, alien corpses; tried to conjure up Tulpa-style thought-forms of Bigfoot, lycanthropes, and lake monsters in his home-country of England; and was once less-than-politely turned away from the fringes of Area 51, Nevada by a fat and humorless security guard.

His websites are nickredfern.com & ufomystic.com

topics discussed:
1 hr 49 min
Nick Redfern & Greg Bishop

Part 2 of 2