We kick things off by taking a general look at the era of 1973 to 1991 for UFO studies, how the field looked when it first started and the massive evolution that took place over those 20 years. Richard tells us why he now looks at the big picture of Ufology as pre & post Internet. This leads to some discussion on the perceived taint of some of the 1980's research in Ufology as much of it, now in retrospect, hangs under a massive cloud of doubt due to known interference by people like Rick Doty, who were actively disinforming the community. Richard makes the case that there must be some nuggets of true information in that disinformation, by the very nature of disinformation itself. Richard also details how this situation is part of a key theory from his book: that the government "fought back" against UFO studies in the 1980's as the field began to make progress and get stronger.

Moving down a whole different avenue of discussion, we cover Richard's investigation, in the book, of the "ours v. theirs" debate regarding UFO craft and how taht debate holds up, in retrospect, based on what we now know of the leading technology of the time. This segues into discussion on what Richard thinks is the single theme that emerged from his writing the book: the concept of a "breakaway civilization" of those "in the know" about UFOs. We talk about the potential dangers of this "breakaway civilization" in that it would create a separate race of people who were far advanced of "average" humans in knowledge and consciousness. Looking at one of the many cases profiled in the book, we talk about the Hudson Valley UFO flap of the early 1980's and Richard talks about why it was like the "perfect storm" for Ufology.

Next we examine some of the trials and tribulations of the people involved in Ufology during the 1973 to 1991 era, beginning with the formation of MUFON which was an organization that formed as a breakaway group from APRO. Richard talks about how APRO founder Coral Lorenzen reacted to the formation of MUFON and what she was like as the leader of APRO. We also talk about J. Allen Hynek's role in this era of Ufology, how he was a polarizing figure in a number of ways and how Hynek's group CUFOS had an acrimonious relationship with both MUFON and APRO. On the plus side, Richard credits Hynek for being a champion for "scientific Ufology." We also look back at how the folding of NICAP created a vacuum, of sorts, out of which MUFON and CUFOS formed, much to the chagrin of APRO. Richard reflects on how CUFOS was the "conservative wing" of UFO studies, avoiding crash retrieval and abduction research.

This leads to some discussion on how crash retrieval research sparked a revolution of thinking in UFO studies as, to accept it, obliterates the old paradigm of "foul up v. cover up" which was the dominant debate in UFO studies for decades. He also talks about how the emergence of abduction research in the 1980's also added a new layer onto the discourse of the time and how Budd Hopkins' work ended up swaying some of the conservative Ufologists into, at least, looking at the evidence. We then talk about Richard's inclusion, in the book, of characters like Bill Cooper and John Lear, researchers who put forth a lot of controversial material in the late 1980's. He talks about how he wrestled with the portrayal of these controversial figures and their "contributions" to the field. He specifically talks about the notorious Bill Cooper and shares his take on the veracity of Cooper's research. We then look at another big theme from the book: the transition from nationalism to a more global society and how the UFO subject & cover up fits into that new paradigm.

Tackling another meme which has been a part of Ufology since the beginning, we talk about the "impending disclosure" concept. Richard discusses how this idea pops up every decade in Ufology, if not once then several times. Surprisingly, he takes a more positive look at this trend and explains why people should find hope in the meme, rather than being disheartened by the constant failures to achieve UFO disclosure. This leads to some general discussion on UFO disclosure and Richard addresses the challenges of revealing the secret. He also talks about the alleged US government's 1991 attempt at UFO disclosure, why Richard believes that it truly happened. He also reveals a new project, that he is co-authoring, which will look at the disclosure issue and should arrive later this year. He also talks about why there is not motivation for governments to release the UFO truth but, also, why he thinks that UFO disclosure is inevitable.

Looking at some of the interesting anecdotes found in UFOs and the National Security State, Vol. II, we first examine Colonel John Alexander's UFO Working Group of the 1980's, what it was and what Richard thinks its goals were. We then talk about one of the more romanticized stories in Ufology's history: The Aviary. Richard talks about what it was and clears up some of the confusion that has developed about the group over the years. We then find out about Dr. Erik Walker and the major revelations he made about MJ-12 and the nature of the UFO cover-up. Richard details how Walker's information came to light, speculates on the veracity of that information and why it seems to be pretty strong information. He also tells us about the "coded letter" that Erik walker wrote and that has never been decoded.

Heading towards the close, we examine another big theme of the book: that the UFO secret may have moved from being kept by the government to being kept by private corporations. Richard explains why this probably happened and what it means for UFO secrecy. Richard also speculates on what the contemporary version of an MJ-12 like group would actually look like and it is far different from the "classic MJ-12" concept.

Looking ahead to UFOs and the National Security State, Vol. III, which will bring his study up to the present day, we find out from Richard how he handles the challenges of writing a history book when the subject is so fresh as well as aspects of which will, by the nature of his recent work, also include himself. Taking one last look at the issue of UFO studies, we talk about how there seems to have been a massive shift in the public perception of the UFO phenomenon in recent years. Closing out this marathon conversation, we find out what's next for Richard Dolan, including an impending new book due out later this Fall and the expected release time for Vol. III.

Richard M. Dolan was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1962. He holds an MA in History from the University of Rochester and a BA in History from Alfred University. He earned a Certificate in Political Theory from Oxford University and was a Rhodes Scholar finalist. Prior to his interest in anomalous phenomena, Dolan studied US Cold War strategy, Soviet history, and international diplomacy.In 2000, he published UFOs and the National Security State: An Unclassified History, 1941-1973 (republished in 2002 with the subtitle Chronology of a Cover-Up, 1941-1973). This 500-page history provides clear detail on the major UFO cases of the early Cold War era, the attitudes and policies toward UFOs by the military and intelligence community, and the fascinating development of the citizen movements to end UFO secrecy. In 2009, Richard completed Volume Two of his historical study, subtitled The Cover-Up Exposed, 1973-1991, and is now at work on the final volume of his historical trilogy He has also published articles and spoken at conferences around the world. Among his main themes are the destruction of our political liberties as a result of the UFO cover-up. He has also speculated on the possible nature of the non-humans themselves and what their presence here means for our civilization. This has led him to take a fresh approach to the topic of “Exopolitics” and to develop unique insights into the practical challenges and opportunities for a true disclosure of the UFO phenomenon. Richard has done a great deal of television work, having appeared on many documentaries for the History Channel, Sci Fi Channel, BBC, and elsewhere. In 2006 he was host to a six-episode series for the Sci Fi Channel, called SciFi Investigates. His website is keyholepublishing.com.

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Richard Dolan